July 16, 1998
THE FOLLOWING ARTICLE APPEARED IN THE SUMMER ISSUE OF ASU VISION, THE ASU ALUMNI MAGAZINE
By Bob Jacobsen '63
When Bruce Snyder was hired as head football coach at Arizona State in January 1992, the Sun Devils had just struggled through four years with a 22-21-1 record. Not bad, but not what ASU alumni and supporters had come to expect. So Snyder was lured from the University of California, Berkeley.
Snyder went 6-5 and 6-5 before an injury-plagued 3-8 season in 1994. The Sun Devils began the '95 campaign 2-4 to leave the coach a not-too-impressive 17-22 in 39 games at ASU. But the turnaround began the next week. The Devils won four of their last five, went 11-0 the next season before a loss in the Rose Bowl, and 9-3 in '97 topped off by a victory in the Sun Bowl.
Alumni, boosters and national prognosticators are talking about the 1998 season replicating the '96 campaign. The Devils are ranked among the preseason top ten. Snyder likes the publicity his team is receiving, but says there still is a long way to go.
The 1996 Coach of the Year's efforts to build a consistent winner reach beyond the sidelines - from his commitment to academics to his urging all fans to wear Solid Gold. Snyder is building a program, not a one- or two- year wonder.
Recently, he took the time to speak with ASU Vision about how he almost didn't come to ASU; how hard the struggle really was; how solid the Devils' recruiting has become; support received from past and present administrations; and how much longer he wants to coach.
Q: Your name had been tossed around in connection with the ASU coaching opening in December 1991. What was your first contact with ASU?
A: It was a phone call I received from (former ASU athletic director) Charles Harris. There was a phone message in my room in Orlando (site of California's Citrus Bowl triumph over Clemson) on the night of Jan. 1, 1992. I arrived back from the game at about 1 or 2 a.m. Charles asked me to call back if I were interested (in the ASU job).
The next morning I approached the Cal athletic director (Bob Bockrath) on the flight home. I told him I'd been contacted by ASU and had been asked to call back if I was interested. Bockrath and I had been going through contract negotiations. He said a couple of things to me, and I got up and went back to my seat next to (wife) Linda. I told her, "This is not going to work." (Bockrath, a former University of Arizona offensive line coach and assistant athletic director, had replaced former A.D. Dave Maggard in August, and had recently fired basketball coach Lou Campanelli.)
Before Maggard left Cal, he came to me after we beat Wyoming in the Copper Bowl and told me he'd like to propose a new contract and gave me some of the details. I told Maggard they were fine with me. I wanted to stay. So he went and got the Chancellor's OK.
Maggard told me he wanted to get it done before he left Cal, but it didn't happen.
When Bockrath came on board, he said what Maggard and I agreed to was not OK. I said, "Really? I have a handshake deal, and we have the Chancellor's OK." He said he didn't believe in those kinds of contracts. He wanted a penalty clause included that if I left before the contract expired, I would owe the university money over the remainder of the contract term.
I told him I could understand it if I was just coming in, but I had been there five years. We were 1-10 when we started, and 10-2 when we ended. I told him I had paid for being there. I put my career on the line. It wasn't about money. Id still be there if he had thrown out the penalty clause. It wasn't like I was just rolling in.
So, I considered leaving Cal. I started to move away from the school. Then once I met (ASU President) Lattie Coor on Jan. 3 at the LA Airport Marriott, I liked him. Even though I didn't like the idea of moving within the conference, ASU was very appealing.
Q: Larry Smith moved from Arizona to USC. But Im sure there were some ugly moments for him, too, especially in Tucson.
A: It's been tense back in Berkeley for me on occasion, too. But after meeting with Lattie, I became more interested in ASU. The more I looked at Arizona State, the more and more attractive it became.
Q: You have said you didn't have time to thoroughly research the situation at ASU. But you had been here before, and coached here before. What intrigued you about ASU, Tempe and the Valley? The history? Potential? Facilities? The living conditions?
A: Every time I came to Arizona State, I said, "Wow!" So at that time was still in a wow state. It was a highly emotional decision for me. My wife is my chief adviser. She didn't know much about either school (ASU or Cal), and didn't really want to know. She doesn't look at things that way. She's wonderful. So there we were.
Along with my wife's insight, I made what I thought was the right decision. I didn't research it very much, other than I really liked Lattie. And I had always thought Arizona State had a chance to be really good. Lattie helped put it over the top.
Q: How have you been supported by this administration? How was it in the beginning? Have the faculty and staff accepted your program and players?
A: There's a much better relationship now between the university and the Athletic Department. After 35 years in collegiate athletics, I have this theory. You've heard of the 80/20 theory? That means 80 percent of your problems comes from 20 percent of your people, and 80 percent of your productivity comes from 20 percent of your people and so on. Well, I have the Bruce Snyder theory.
On most campuses, 25 percent of faculty and staff really love athletics. They believe athletics belongs, believe its worthwhile and benefits the whole culture. Twenty-five percent are against athletics, don't believe it belongs, think it's a worthless set of activities and should be someplace else. Then you have 50 percent who are in the middle. You have to earn their support, or you wind up chasing away their support. They can be convinced one way or the other depending on the quality of person you bring in.
Obviously, winning helps. It also helps when you bring in young men like Pat Tillman and Damien Richardson (both academic All-Americans). We haven't had a legal problem in quite some time. The President has helped because he supports what we're trying to do. He influences attitudes. I try to attend a lot of university functions. I think I'm well-spoken enough to sound like I should be on a university campus. My players, for the most part, don't make everybody cringe. We're eating into the 50 percent. I don't think we'll ever convince the 25 percent. That's just not realistic.
Q: Does the Board of Regents new 16-core class rule, which takes effect beginning this summer, bother you? Or do you think it's a positive?
A: It frightens me, although I think we can live with it. I'm concerned there's a university that will let in a 13-core person, and Arizona State will not. I believe it's like Congress instituting a tax code, and the committees, or the IRS says, "How do we make this work?" I think the Board of Regents came up with a code and now we're trying to figure out how to implement it.
I believe the last piece for us to become a long-lasting, great football program is our academic reputation. If that were in place, I don't know that anybody could beat us in recruiting. I think we could go in and say: "Weve got the facility, coaching staff and history of winning - the whole package." So I am for it, or any way we can improve our academic reputation. But, ... I dont want it to ruin us before we get there.
Q: How is your relationship with Athletic Director Kevin White?
A: Our relationship has been terrific. Kevin and I are still getting to know each other, but I do trust that what he says is what he believes. And that's a neat thing when you can really trust someone. If I were to say something, I think he'd trust me. That's really refreshing.
Q: Have you ever thought about becoming an Athletic Director?
A: I don't want Kevin's job, and he doesn't want mine. I don't want his thunder, and he doesn't want mine. If we were different people, either one of us could take advantage of that trust.
Q: When White joined ASU in 1996, he stepped into a great football situation - an undefeated regular season and a trip to the Rose Bowl. What if you had had your 3-8 season that year? What would he have done then?
A: I don't know. I felt watched for his first six months. He was trying to decide if I was his football coach or not. Which I would do, too, if I were an athletic director.
Kevin has really helped the department's total relationship within the building. People who were at odds with each other are now working with each other. And it's strictly because of the change in that one position. He's doing it the hard way, though. He's attempting to change the way we work as opposed to getting rid of the people.
Q: Have you met ASU's new basketball coach Rob Evans?
A: Yes, and I really like this guy.
I don't know basketball, so I dont know whether he can coach basketball. We talked about how we operate as head coaches. I'm a pretty good judge of personalities. I liked what he said about how he treated kids and trust and loyalty.
Q: Before Cal, had you ever coached at Sun Devil Stadium? Against Frank Kush? And what did you know about ASU's football history?
A: Remember Mark Malone's 98-yard run against Utah State in 1979? I was the coach on the other sideline. Fast. That's what I remember. He ran right by me. He wasn't more than a yard from me. We were in the game (a 28-14 ASU win) at that point, and we had punted down to their two-yard-line. I turned to somebody and said, "Were going to be in this right until the end." (He snapped his fingers.) Then here he came. That did it.
I knew about Frank (who was fired two weeks before the ASU-Utah State game). His accomplishments were so well publicized. But I really became detached about ASU during the John Cooper era. That is all kind of cloudy to me. I knew a little about Darryl Rogers. Frank's era convinced me speed, athleticism, and football are really important here.
Q: How do you compare living in the Valley to the Bay Area?
A: It's dramatically different. The Bay Area is fairly sophisticated, but harsh. It has some real rough edges, some angst to it, particularly the East Bay - even around the Berkeley campus. But it also has some tremendous resources for culture, and intellectual pursuits.
Q: Is that important to you?
A: Yes. I don't want to sound snooty, but I enjoy those things. If I went to a booster club meeting at Cal, I never thought about not wearing a coat and tie. You just do it. When I came here, one of the first things I went to was a Sun Devil Club meeting. It was a lot more casual. They're wonderful people, with a different style of living.
Another difference is we're a younger institution. Many among our support base may not be alumni. When you meet a Cal booster, that's a Cal graduate. At Cal, when we were losing, we had 32,000 fans at a game. But when we were drawing 60-70,000, we still had the same 32,000 base, and they were all alumni. It didn't matter if you were 10-2 or 0-11. Our mix here is different.
Our personal economic situation helps us like it here. If you live someplace, and you're broke, no place is good. If you're doing fine financially, you can find something good in almost any place. I think we've been well received. Even when we were 3-8, people weren't mean to us.
Q: How much of a struggle were the first four years?
A: The program did take a lot of hits early due to some legal problems, but I was removed from that to some degree. Many of our problems began before my arrival.
Q: The struggle ended in the 1996 season. Is that season your best football memory? It was great for the fans. Was it as great for the coaches?
A: I don't know if the rush of a winning streak is different for a coach than for a fan, but I don't know anybody who really enjoys it as much as a coach. Each week is like playing double-or-nothing poker - you dont protect your winnings, you put them out there again and again. So the pressure of the season doesn't allow you to throw your shoulders back and say, "Wow!" We were working so hard we didnt feel anything. But in retrospect, that '96 season has more positive memories than any one season - 10 seasons - I can remember.
I knew Jake (Plummer) was good. And I sensed the team would be pretty good when it took on a life of its own, in terms of how directed it was. Maybe they were all thinking they had to get to a bowl, because the year before we were begging to get into any bowl. But as for an 11-0 run? I had no idea. That just doesn't happen very often.
Q: Does that year make up for the first four?
A: When Michelangelo painted, it didn't matter where he was. He liked what he did, what he created. We have created a pretty good program. That's what I'm most proud of and why I'm happy here. It's because of what we've built.
The events on the field that season are memorable. The game-winning kick against Washington. The absolute crescendo for the Nebraska game. The crescendo rose so much if we had played in a domed stadium, we'd have blown off the lid.
Then the comeback against UCLA. I felt best about the terms of my role then, when at halftime, I got the team to relax - just play one play at a time. You could really see them buy into that. Then came the double overtime against USC. How many games have you ever enjoyed more than that one? I've never stood on the sideline and enjoyed a game as much. So the whole thing, clear to the victory in Tucson, had so many memories, it would be hard to single out one.
Q: Was the season too quick?
A: At the end you look back and say, "Wow! This really went fast!" We did get into some habits that season, but I don't think I'm that superstitious (even though he did not get a haircut from August until December).
The whole season was fun. Really fun. We even played a couple of games when we were not ready to play and we still won big. How good is that? Not to be ready, not have your A game, and still beat a pretty good team. That was confidence.
At midseason I talked to (former California Coach) Keith Gilbertson, who was the offensive coordinator at Washington when they were No. 1, and asked him what should we do? He said if our season was anything like theirs, the team would gain so much momentum you couldn't stop them. That's exactly what happened. From the sixth game on, that team, in terms of practice and preparation, could not be derailed.
Q: Was that a once-in-a-lifetime circumstance?
A: I hope not. Even though I've never had a season like that in 35 years.
I spend a couple of weeks every year at Lake Tahoe, and that summer while I was sitting around chatting with some people, I remember saying, "Were going to be pretty good." I think people tend to believe what I say, more so now than before. I remember telling you after the Stanford loss in 1995 that I thought we had finally turned the corner. You looked at me funny. But weve won 80 percent (24-5) of our games since then.
Q: I wondered how you could say that after a loss, but you were right. How tough was the 3-8 season?
A: Despite playing a lot of freshmen on defense and making a lot of errors, I think I did my best coaching during that year and those 6-5 years. People don't know that. We built this program without a lot of internal consistency. I remember a quote from someone then: "We were attempting to be Harvard from Monday-through-Friday; Florida State on Saturday; and operating on Chico State's budget."
Q: How much has your success the last two years helped you recruit in Arizona, LA and the state of California?
A: In Arizona we should get 80-90 percent of the guys we go after. In LA, it's not going to be that high of a percentage. I think we can consistently win against non-LA schools, and the toughest we go against are Washington and Colorado. We're close to getting our share. To me it's still hit-and-miss, and I don't think that's good enough. I think we should consistently win that battle.
Now against USC and UCLA, the way to beat them is to find the kid they don't find. They can't take everybody. A lot of schools want the media to write they had the best recruiting class. They recruit kids off lists. You become consumed by wanting that recognition. I think that's an error. There are good players not on that list, like Plummer, Tillman, Richardson and Jason Simmons. J.R. (Redmond) may have been on a list, but he wasn't on a lot of them.
Q: This seems too obvious (especially to a head coach often referred to as the real running backs coach), but I'm asking it anyway. If you had a program to start from scratch, which position would you recruit first?
A: (Smile) Tailback, but right behind tailback would be the defensive line. It's hard to find a position that can control a game more. I don't think it would be a quarterback. It's important he plays well, but my history is finding an above average high school quarterback, and putting enough players around him so he can win. He has to be tough and competitive. Two examples are Mike Pawlawski (Cal) and Eric Hipple (Utah State). We got enough good people around them, and both manufactured offenses.
Q: You have just three assistants (coordinators Dan Cozzetto and Phil Snow, and Dick Arbuckle) left from your original staff. Six have departed. Three more, who came after your arrival, have left. If you have a successful season this year, you can expect more to depart. Does this bother you? And do you have a game plan for when an assistant leaves?
A: When an assistant leaves, I will not go out and hire a "guru." I hire a guy who will coach what I want him to coach. My offense really hasn't changed a lot through the years. There's one common thread - me. I always keep a list (if someone leaves).
When we came here, we brought our eight-man front scheme from Cal. But teams caught up to it after the first couple of years. Then (after the 3-8 season) we made some dramatic changes staff-wise (Defensive Coordinator Kent Baer went to Stanford). It was painful (Baer and Snyder had been together since Utah State). But it worked out. Phil is very bright, and has a good relationship with the kids. He's a good recruiter and a good evaluator.
Coaches we've hired since Phil took over the defense have all worked toward implementing the package he and I worked out. I know what I want. On defense, I'm like a patron of a good restaurant. I can tell good food. I've never coached defense, but I know what it looks like. And I'll change it if I see fit. Offensively, I'm the chef. It won't change much. My fingerprints are all over the offense.
Q: How much longer do you want to coach? You're 58, and if the upcoming season goes as many expect, you will be in demand, as will your assistants. Would you leave for another college job or the NFL?
A: I've really wrestled with that (the appeal of coaching in the NFL), because I'm asked about it a number of times during recruiting. It's a legitimate question. If somebody said my career was over, and I had not become an NFL coach, I would not feel like a piece was missing from my life.
Would I like to see if I could do it? Sure. Id also like to play in a jazz band, but I don't know if I'm good enough or if I'll ever have the opportunity. But I can live the rest of my life without playing in one. Among the things I'd like to do that I may never do is take the trip that Alexander the Great did when he conquered the known world. I'll never do that and I can live with it. Would I like to do it? Yes. I'd like to do it while keeping my Arizona State football-coaching job.
Let's say things somehow got their wires crossed here. What if? I could see myself saying, yeah, let's give the NFL a shot.
The other reason I might go is because the NFL is so lucrative. It's one way to protect my family. Vested retirement in the NFL is five years, and I have four (with the Los Angeles Rams). But you can't leave for just an NFL retirement check.
Q: I don't think anybody would really begrudge you if you left for the NFL. Especially if this coming season goes as we all hope.
A: I would not leave for the coaching challenge. Sure, I'd like to see how I'd coach against the NFL coaches (like former Snyder assistant Steve Mariucci of San Francisco). That's a challenge. Even though I don't think it's better coaching than what we face in the Pac-10. But that's not the motivation.
Q: How about other college jobs?
A: I don't see myself ever leaving for another college job. My quality of life is pretty important to me. And to make that kind of change is not what I want. Also, I think we can be as good as the Nebraskas, Michigans, Ohio States, etc., so there's no job out there.
Last year I was offered a job for $750,000 for seven years with no requirement to win (he wouldnt say where). But I don't want to lose. Do I have a better chance to win here? Absolutely.
I've told myself I want to coach indefinitely. That could be two years or 12 years. I don't see it after I'm 65 or 66. One reason I want to continue is because I'm in good shape, and my health is good. Another is because I like kids. And I still enjoy recruiting. If I ever get tired of that, it will be the first sign. I've got enough other interests that when I do leave, I'm going to walk away. I will not hang around. I've got too many things I can and want to do. I wouldn't call it retiring, I'd call it changing gears.
Q: What would you do if someone walked in and said the school was disbanding football?
A: I'd have a list of about 10 things I'd choose from. I'd be off and running fast. The fans want their coach to be total, and I think part of the reason why I'm decent at teaching is because I can talk about other things.
Q: Would you stay in the Valley?
A: My wife says so. She really likes it here, and so do I. It would be very tough to leave. We're comfortable with the people we know. We've made a lot of good friends. One of the bad things about coaching is when you walk into a new town, the first 10 people who befriend you are probably not your friends. They just want to be next to you, shoulder-to-shoulder with the head football coach. Many, not all, are also the first to criticize you if you don't do well. The next group you meet are people who like you as opposed to liking your position.
Q: There's an old coaching proverb that you shouldn't stay in one place for more than five-to-seven years. Have you heard that?
A: Yes. I altered my coaching philosophy after I heard it (he was kidding). People say coaches make 50 enemies a year. After five years you have 250 enemies. Therefore, that's enough to get you. I hope that's not true. You have to win, and if you don't, you can't stay. Joe Paterno and Bobby Bowden stay because they win. It allows a level of comfort. If your teams are average, you can't last those five-to-seven years because it will eat you up.
One of the best things for a university, a football program and an athletic department, is to have a long-term coach because that solidifies everything. All those guys who played for Frank Kush and Darryl Rogers come back and have a hard time identifying with us. Woody Hayes (the longtime Ohio State Coach) guys all felt like they belonged. It's because you keep consistency over a long period with that one position.
Q: How important is it to you to leave this program in the best possible shape when you depart?
A: I don't want to be dragged out of here by my heels, but do you know what it is I like most about the Valley? It's my program. I'm proud of what we have created. I would hate to walk away from a program in shambles. I'd be hurt.
Q: You just said you liked your program. Where does it stand now?
A: We can't kick this program into neutral. Let's not coast. We're close, but we're not quite there yet. It takes more energy to sustain a football program than any other sport because it has so many moving parts. If we ever did kick this thing out of gear, we'd lose ground so fast. So I hope people in the Valley don't say we have arrived. We have not. My goal is to go to a major bowl game every year.